中英對照演講稿

In the early days of Twitter, it was like a place ofradical de-shaming. People would admit shameful secrets about themselves, andother people would say, 'Oh my God, I'm exactly the same.' 

Twitter 剛出不久時， 像是個奇葩類的供洗恥的地方。 人們會直諱一些羞于啟齒的秘密， 其他人就會搭腔說， “天啊，我跟你一模一樣?！?nbsp;

Voicelesspeople realized that they had a voice, and it was powerful and eloquent. If anewspaper ran some racist or homophobic column, we realized we could dosomething about it. We could get them. 

欲言無處訴的人 意識到自己有話語權(quán)了， 而且還能聲勢浩大、振振有詞。遇到哪份報(bào)張發(fā)表了種族歧視 或反同性戀的言論時， 我們就知道可以 采取行動了。 

We could hit them with a weapon that weunderstood but they didn't -- a social media shaming. Advertisers would with draw their advertising. When powerful people misused their privilege, 

我們能把他們揪出來。 我們可以用炮轟他們，——用他們覺得陌生而我們得心應(yīng)手的武器，叫社交媒體羞辱法。廣告商就會撤回廣告。遇到有權(quán)有勢之士濫用特權(quán)的時候， 

we were going to get them. This was like the democratization of justice.Hierarchies were being leveled out. We were going to do things better.

我們就可以把他們給揪出來。簡直就像司法的民主化。 階層差異被推平了。 很多事情我們都可以做得更好了。

Soon after that, a disgraced pop science writer calledJonah Lehrer -- he'd been caught plagiarizing and faking quotes, and he wasdrenched in shame and regret, he told me. And he had the opportunity topublicly apologize at a foundation lunch. This was going to be the most important speech of his life. 

那之后不久，一位名叫喬納·雷爾的知名科學(xué)作家， 做了件丟人的事—— 抄襲和捏造引據(jù)，并因之深陷羞辱和悔恨，他對我說， 他得到一個機(jī)會可以在一次基金午餐會上公開道歉。 那將會是他生命中 最重要的一次講話的了。

Maybe it would win him some salvation. He knew before hearrived that the foundation was going to be live-streaming his event, but whathe didn't know until he turned up, was that they'd erected a giant screenTwitter feed right next to his head. (Laughter) Another one in a monitor screenin his eye line.

可能會為他挽回一點(diǎn)顏面。出席之前他知道該基金會將要流媒體直播他的講話， 但他沒有料到的是，到了會場之后， 才發(fā)現(xiàn)現(xiàn)場豎起了一個巨大的 推特?zé)善粒桶に念^旁邊。（笑聲） 另一個電腦熒屏則在他的視線之內(nèi)。

I don't think the foundation did this because they weremonstrous. I think they were clueless: I think this was a unique moment whenthe beautiful naivety of Twitter was hitting the increasingly horrific reality.

該基金會的如此做法 我不認(rèn)為是出于豺狼之性， 我認(rèn)為他們是愚昧而已： 以我之見，就在那特別一刻 推特的美麗單純 與現(xiàn)實(shí)的日益殘酷來了場正面碰撞。

And here were some of the Tweets that were cascading intohis eye line, as he was trying to apologize:

以下幾條是當(dāng)時在現(xiàn)場出現(xiàn)的推文， 當(dāng)時他正準(zhǔn)備道歉：

'Jonah Lehrer, boring us into forgiving him.'(Laughter)

“喬納·雷爾，想通過 讓我們無聊的方式來原諒他。” （笑聲）

And, 'Jonah Lehrer has not proven that he is capableof feeling shame.'

“喬納·雷爾仍未證明 自己是個會羞恥的人?！?br/>

That one must have been written by the best psychiatristever, to know that about such a tiny figure behind a lectern.

寫這條的人一定是 史上最高明的精神醫(yī)生， 遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)看一眼講臺后的小小身影 就能進(jìn)行診斷

And, 'Jonah Lehrer is just a frigging sociopath.'

“喬納·雷爾個徹頭徹尾的變態(tài)狂?！?br/>

That last word is a very human thing to do, to dehumanizethe people we hurt. It's because we want to destroy people but not feel badabout it. Imagine if this was an actual court, and the accused was in the dark,begging for another chance, and the jury was yelling out, 'Bored!Sociopath!' (Laughter)

最后一個詞的使用是人性使然， 是為了把我們要傷害的人非人化。 因?yàn)槲覀兿朐跉鐒e人的同時 自己感覺不到痛苦。 想象一下如果這是在法庭里面， 被告還蒙在鼓里，乞求給予第二次機(jī)會， 陪審員已經(jīng)先聲奪人， ”無聊啊！你個變態(tài)！“ （笑聲）

You know, when we watch courtroom dramas, we tend toidentify with the kindhearted defense attorney, but give us the power, and webecome like hanging judges.

對吧，一般我們看法律劇的時候，總傾向于 那個心地善良的辯方大律師， 而一旦擁有了權(quán)力， 我們就變成愛判死刑的法官了。

Power shifts fast. We were getting Jonah because he wasperceived to have misused his privilege, but Jonah was on the floor then, andwe were still kicking, and congratulating ourselves for punching up. 

勢頭如風(fēng)，瞬息萬變。 之前，我們把喬納給揪出來， 因?yàn)樗麨E用自己的特權(quán)， 但當(dāng)喬納已經(jīng)倒下了， 我們還上去補(bǔ)兩腳， 還以為自己英雄了得，沾沾自喜。 

And itbegan to feel weird and empty when there wasn't a powerful person who hadmisused their privilege that we could get. A day without a shaming began tofeel like a day picking fingernails and treading water.

而當(dāng)找不到一個濫用職權(quán)的人可供攻擊時，甚至?xí)械郊拍仗摾洹?nbsp;哪天無人可辱，就覺得 人生無望，惶惶不可終日了。

Let me tell you a story. It's about a woman called JustineSacco. She was a PR woman from New York with 170 Twitter followers, and she'dTweet little acerbic jokes to them, like this one on a plane from New York toLondon: [Weird German Dude: You're in first class. It's 2014. Get somedeodorant.' 

這里給各位說個故事。 一位名叫賈絲婷·薩科的女士的故事。 她住紐約，從事公關(guān)工作， 有170 位推特粉絲， 不時會發(fā)些尖酸刻薄的笑話。 比如這個，是她從紐約 去倫敦途中在飛機(jī)上發(fā)的： [怪異德國男：你搭的可是頭等艙啊。 都2014年了。也不搽點(diǎn)除臭劑。] 

-Inner monologue as inhale BO. Thank god for pharmaceuticals.]So Justine chuckled to herself, and pressed send, and got no replies, and feltthat sad feeling that we all feel when the Internet doesn't congratulate us forbeing funny. 

——呼入體臭時的內(nèi)心獨(dú)白 。幸虧我有藥。] 之后賈絲婷對自己笑了笑， 按了發(fā)送鍵，沒得到任何回應(yīng)，頓感一陣悲哀，我們也一樣 在網(wǎng)上說了個笑話，沒人搭理， 我們也悲哀。 

(Laughter) Black silence when the Internet doesn't talk back. Andthen she got to Heathrow, and she had a little time to spare before her finalleg, so she thought up another funny little acerbic joke:

（笑聲） 網(wǎng)上無人回應(yīng)，簡直是人間悲劇。 抵達(dá)希思羅機(jī)場后， 她還有點(diǎn)空閑時間要打發(fā)， 離下班飛機(jī)起飛還有段時間，她又編了一尖酸小段子：

[Going to Africa. Hope I don't get AIDS. Just kidding. I'mwhite!]

[去非洲路上。希望到時不會染上艾滋病。 說個笑呵。俺可是白人哦！ ]

And she chuckled to herself, pressed send, got on theplane, got no replies, turned off her phone, fell asleep, woke up 11 hourslater, turned on her phone while the plane was taxiing on the runway, andstraightaway there was a message from somebody that she hadn't spoken to sincehigh school, 

她又自己笑了笑，按了發(fā)送鍵， 上了飛機(jī)，也沒得到回應(yīng)， 關(guān)上手機(jī)，睡覺去了， 11個小時后醒來， 打開手機(jī)，飛機(jī)還在跑道上滑行，旋即，她收到一條短信， 來自一個 她中學(xué)畢業(yè)后就沒見過的人的，

that said, 'I am so sorry to see what's happening toyou.' And then another message from a best friend, 'You need to callme right now. You are the worldwide number one trending topic on Twitter.'(Laughter)

短信說:'對于你經(jīng)歷的這一切，我真替你難過。“ 還有一個短信來自 她最要好的朋友： ”馬上給我打電話。 你成了推特全球第一的熱門話題。“ （噓聲）

What had happened is that one of her 170 followers had sentthe Tweet to a Gawker journalist, and he retweeted it to his 15,000 followers:[And now, a funny holiday joke from IAC's PR boss] 

發(fā)生了啥事呢，就是她的 那170個粉絲當(dāng)中有一人將這條推文 轉(zhuǎn)發(fā)給了Gawker網(wǎng)的一個記者，后者又轉(zhuǎn)發(fā)給自己的 15,000名粉絲： [現(xiàn)送上：IAC 公關(guān)一姐 的假期段子] 接下來就一發(fā)不可收拾了。 

And then it was like a boltof lightning. A few weeks later, I talked to the Gawker journalist. I emailedhim and asked him how it felt, and he said, 'It felt delicious.' Andthen he said, 'But I'm sure she's fine.'

幾周之后我聯(lián)系過那個 Gawker網(wǎng)記者的。 我電郵給他，問他當(dāng)時感覺如何， 他說：“真是痛快之極啊。” 接著他說： “我敢保證她沒事?！?br/>

But she wasn't fine, because while she slept, Twitter tookcontrol of her life and dismantled it piece by piece. First there were thephilanthropists: [If @JustineSacco's unfortunate words ... bother you, 

但她怎么可能沒事， 在她睡著的時候， 推特掌控了她的生活， 并讓其分崩離析。 首先下手的是那些慈善家： [如果@賈絲婷·薩科的不慎之言 使你不安， 

join mein supporting @CARE's work in Africa.] [In light of ... disgusting, racisttweet, I'm donating to @care today] Then came the beyond horrified: [... nowords for that horribly disgusting racist as fuck tweet from Justine Sacco. Iam beyond horrified.]

來和我一起支持非洲的 援助工作吧。] [讀了那篇惡心的種族論推文，我今天就捐款給@Care。全文見...] 繼而是更可怕的： [無語。極度種族論，來自 賈絲婷·薩科的操蛋貼。 我簡直驚呆了。]

Was anybody on Twitter that night? A few of you. DidJustine's joke overwhelm your Twitter feed the way it did mine? It did mine,and I thought what everybody thought that night, which was, 'Wow,somebody's screwed! Somebody's life is about to get terrible!' 

在座的有那天晚上 上推特的嗎？好幾位。 你們的推特也像我的那樣 被賈絲婷的段子刷屏了嗎？ 我是被刷屏了， 當(dāng)時就和大家想的一樣， 就是：”哇塞，有人捅了馬蜂窩啦！ 有人要倒大霉了！“ 

And I satup in my bed, and I put the pillow behind my head, and then I thought, I'm notentirely sure that joke was intended to be racist. Maybe instead of gleefullyflaunting her privilege, she was mocking the gleeful flaunting of privilege.There's a comedy tradition of this, 

然后我在床上坐起來， 抓起枕頭擱腦袋后面，然后琢磨，我真不確定 這段子真的有種族主義傾向。 也許她并不是在洋洋得意地 顯擺自己， 只是在嘲諷這種顯擺而已。 喜劇里都有這樣的傳統(tǒng)， 如《南方公園》或科爾伯特或蘭迪·紐曼。 

like South Park or Colbert or Randy Newman.Maybe Justine Sacco's crime was not being as good at it as Randy Newman. Infact, when I met Justine a couple of weeks later in a bar, 

也許賈絲婷·薩科之罪在于 嘲諷得不如 蘭迪·紐曼高明吧。 事實(shí)呢，兩周后我和賈絲婷 在一酒吧碰了頭， 她人已完全崩潰，

she was justcrushed, and I asked her to explain the joke, and she said, 'Living inAmerica puts us in a bit of a bubble when it comes to what is going on in theThird World. I was making of fun of that bubble.'

我讓她對那個段子做個解釋， 她說：”生活在美國 就像生活在一個氣泡里似的， 不知道第三世界到底發(fā)生了什么。 我是在嘲笑那個氣泡?！?br/>

You know, another woman on Twitter that night, a NewStatesman writer Helen Lewis, she reviewed my book on public shaming and wrotethat she Tweeted that night, 'I'm not sure that her joke was intended tobe racist,' 

那晚在推特上的還有 New Statesman雜志的作家,海倫·劉易斯, 她給我關(guān)于眾羞的那本書寫了書評， 她寫到，當(dāng)晚她也發(fā)個推文： ”我不敢肯定她的笑話 是藏有種族論用心的，“ 

and she said straightaway she got a fury of Tweets saying,'Well, you're just a privileged bitch, too.' And so to her shame, shewrote, she shut up and watched as Justine's life got torn apart.

馬上她就收到一大堆回帖，說: '呵，那你跟她一樣 也是個養(yǎng)尊處優(yōu)的母狗了?！?就這樣，她寫到，礙于羞愧，她就閉了嘴，靜觀 賈絲婷的生活被瓦解了。

It started to get darker: [Everyone go report this cunt@JustineSacco] Then came the calls for her to be fired. [Good luck with the jobhunt in the new year. #GettingFired] Thousands of people around the worlddecided it was their duty to get her fired. [@JustineSacco last tweet of yourcareer. 

事情愈發(fā)糟糕： [大家都快來舉報(bào) 這個X婆 @賈絲婷·薩科] 接著就有人開始說該把她炒了。[祝新年尋工好運(yùn)。 #要找工] 全球成千上萬的人將把賈絲婷炒魷魚視為己任。 [@賈絲婷·薩科你職途的 最后一帖。

#SorryNotSorry Corporations got involved, hoping to sell their productson the back of Justine's annihilation: [Next time you plan to tweet somethingstupid before you take off, make sure you are getting on a @Gogo flight!](Laughter)

#悔過不悔過] 商家也跑來湊熱鬧， 希望能趁機(jī)兜售產(chǎn)品， 都是順著賈絲婷之途來的：[下一次你登機(jī)前要發(fā)個 豬腦帖的話， 務(wù)必先買了@Gogo機(jī)艙無線網(wǎng)！] （笑聲）

A lot of companies were making good money that night. Youknow, Justine's name was normally Googled 40 times a month. That month, betweenDecember the 20th and the end of December, her name was Googled 1,220,000 times.

不少公司在那天晚上 賺了一大筆。 賈絲婷的名字平時被谷歌 的次數(shù)是每月40次。 那個月，即12月20日至 該月底， 她的名字被谷歌了122萬次。 

And one Internet economist told me that that meant that Google made somewherebetween 120,000 dollars and 468,000 dollars from Justine's annihilation,whereas those of us doing the actual shaming -- we got nothing. (Laughter) Wewere like unpaid shaming interns for Google. (Laughter)

一位網(wǎng)絡(luò)經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)家告訴說 那意味著谷歌賺了 約12萬至46萬8千美元之間 全有賴于賈絲婷的毀滅，而我們這些噴子， 連一個子兒都沒拿到。（笑聲） 我們就好像是谷歌的 免薪噴子實(shí)習(xí)生似的。 （笑聲）

And then came the trolls: [I'm actually kind of hopingJustine Sacco gets aids? lol] Somebody else on that wrote, 'SomebodyHIV-positive should rape this bitch and then we'll find out if her skin colorprotects her from AIDS.' And that person got a free pass. Nobody wentafter that person. 

繼而就是那些尋畔的了： [我不知為何挺希望 賈絲婷·薩科真染上艾滋的。大笑] 有人在那上面寫道： “應(yīng)該找個艾滋陽性的去 強(qiáng)奸那母狗，我們就能知道 她的膚色能否保護(hù)她不染艾滋了?！?如此惡言者倒免挨板子了。 竟沒有一個人去追剿那家伙。

We were all so excited about destroying Justine, and ourshaming brains are so simple-minded, that we couldn't also handle destroyingsomebody who was inappropriately destroying Justine. Justine was really unitinga lot of disparate groups that night, 

我們?nèi)巳硕紴榱艘獨(dú)?賈絲婷而忙得不可開交。 我們的眾辱心態(tài) 是如此的一心一意，竟無法同時毀滅 那些正在無理毀滅賈絲婷的人。 賈絲婷在那一晚著實(shí)團(tuán)結(jié)了 許多種類各異的群體， 

from philanthropists to 'rape thebitch.' [@JustineSacco I hope you get fired! You demented bitch... Justlet the world know you're planning to ride bare back while in Africa.]

從做慈善的，到叫喊“強(qiáng)奸那母狗”的都有。 [@賈絲婷·薩科我愿你被炒魷魚! 你這瘋癲的母狗...... 向全世界宣告你在非洲的時候 將不戴套就做吧。]

Women always have it worse than men. When a man getsshamed, it's, 'I'm going to get you fired.' When a woman gets shamed,it's, 'I'm going to get you fired and raped and cut out your uterus.'

這類事件中女性遭受的侮辱總比男性更糟糕。 男性在遭受眾辱時，通常是： “我要搞到你被炒魷魚為止。” 當(dāng)女性被眾辱是，通常是： “我要搞到你被炒魷魚， 被強(qiáng)奸、割掉你的子宮。“

And then Justine's employers got involved: [IAC on@JustineSacco tweet: This is an outrageous, offensive comment. Employee inquestion currently unreachable on an intl flight.] And that's when the angerturned to excitement: [All I want for Christmas is to see @JustineSacco's facewhen her plane lands 

然后呢，賈絲婷的雇主也搭腔了： [IAC 就@賈絲婷·薩科發(fā)表推文： 該帖出言不遜，令人發(fā)指。 事主雇員目前在飛機(jī)上， 暫時聯(lián)絡(luò)不上。] 就這樣，憤怒變成了興奮： [我最想要的圣誕禮物就是 看到@賈絲婷·薩科的航班降落后，查看郵箱或留言時 收到 #被炒魷魚了] 

and she checks her inbox/voicemail. #fired][Oh man,@justinesacco is going to have the most painful phone-turning-on moment everwhen her plane lands.] [We are about to watch this @JustineSacco bitch getfired. In REAL time. Before she even KNOWS she's getting fired.] 

[哇噻，當(dāng)@賈絲婷·薩科的航班降落后， 她將迎來最痛苦的開手機(jī)時刻。] [大伙可以齊齊目睹@賈絲婷·薩科這母狗被炒啦。現(xiàn)場直播。 她自己還蒙在鼓里 就被炒魷魚了。] 這無疑成了一段 精彩的大題目： 盡人皆曉的，唯 賈絲婷毫不知情。

What we hadwas a delightful narrative arc. We knew something that Justine didn't. Can youthink of anything less judicial than this? Justine was asleep on a plane andunable to explain herself, and her inability was a huge part of the hilarity.On Twitter that night, we were like toddlers crawling towards a gun. 

還有比這個更 不公正的事情嗎？ 賈絲婷當(dāng)時在飛機(jī)上 睡著，沒機(jī)會為自己解釋， 而這恰恰是這場鬧劇的一大原因。 那天晚上，大家在推特上面 就像小屁孩爬著去夠玩具槍似的。有人查到她的航班號， 就把航班號 鏈接到一個航班跟蹤網(wǎng)站上面。 

Somebodyworked out exactly which plane she was on, so they linked to a flight trackerwebsite. [British Airways Flight 43 On-time - arrives in 1 hour 34 minutes] Ahashtag began trending worldwide: # hasJustineLandedYet? [It is kinda wild tosee someone self-destruct without them even being aware of it.

[英國航空43次航班準(zhǔn)點(diǎn) -- 1小時34分后達(dá)到] 馬上，這一標(biāo)簽開始在全球走紅：#賈絲婷到達(dá)沒有？ [圍觀某人的自我毀滅 真是叫人興奮， 尤其是當(dāng)事人還毫不知情 #賈絲婷到達(dá)沒有？] [說實(shí)話，我本來想回家睡覺的， 

#hasJustineLandedYet] [Seriously. I just want to go home to go to bed, buteveryone at the bar is SO into #HasJustineLandedYet. Can't look away. Can'tleave.] [#HasJustineLandedYet may be the best thing to happen to my Fridaynight.] [Is no one in Cape Town going to the airport to tweet her arrival? 

但是酒吧里人人都 在討論#賈絲婷到達(dá)沒有？沒法不聽，沒法走開。] [#賈絲婷到達(dá)沒有？ 可真是 我在周五晚的最佳節(jié)目。][在開普敦真的沒有人去 機(jī)場發(fā)推報(bào)道她的達(dá)到嗎？ 加把勁兒，推特！俺想看圖呢] 

Comeon, twitter! I'd like pictures] And guess what? Yes there was. [@JustineSaccoHAS in fact landed at Cape Town international. And if you want to know what itlooks like to discover that you've just been torn to shreds because of amisconstrued liberal joke, not by trolls, but by nice people like us

不用猜，也真的有圖片。[@賈絲婷·薩科確實(shí)已經(jīng) 抵達(dá)開普敦國際機(jī)場。 如果各位想知道 當(dāng)一個人發(fā)現(xiàn)因自己隨便開的一個玩笑 而被千刀萬剮是種什么體驗(yàn)， 而且下手的不是網(wǎng)絡(luò)流氓， 而是像你我一樣的好人。

So why did we do it? I think some people were genuinelyupset, but I think for other people, it's because Twitter is basically a mutualapproval machine. We surround ourselves with people who feel the same way wedo, and we approve each other, and that's a really good feeling. 

我們?yōu)槭裁磿龀?這樣的行為的呢？ 依我之見，有的人確實(shí) 是因?yàn)楸幻胺噶耍?但更多的人是因?yàn)?推特本是個互相恭維的工具。 我們只允許志同道合的人在周圍出現(xiàn)，我們互相恭維， 感覺好極了。 

And ifsomebody gets in the way, we screen them out. And do you know what that's theopposite of? It's the opposite of democracy. We wanted to show that we caredabout people dying of AIDS in Africa. 

遇到意見不一的， 我們就轟走他們。 知道這種行為與什么對立嗎？ 與民主對立。我們想對非洲瀕臨死亡的 艾滋病人表達(dá)關(guān)懷。 

Our desire to be seen to be compassionateis what led us to commit this profoundly un-compassionate act. As MeghanO'Gieblyn wrote in the Boston Review, 'This isn't social justice. It's acathartic alternative.'

我們太過急于表現(xiàn)自己的同情心，結(jié)果卻導(dǎo)致了如此缺乏同情心的舉動。 像梅根·奧吉布林在 《波士頓評論》上寫到： '這根本不是社會正義。 這是一種宣泄?！?br/>

For the past three years, I've been going around the worldmeeting people like Justine Sacco -- and believe me, there's a lot of peoplelike Justine Sacco. There's more every day. And we want to think they're fine,but they're not fine. 

在過去的三年， 我走遍世界， 走訪多位和賈絲婷·薩科有一樣遭遇的人 說實(shí)話，這樣的人還真不少。 每天都有更多同樣遭遇的。我們都傾向于相信他們沒事， 但事實(shí)并非如此。 每一個人都深受傷害。 

The people I met were mangled. They talked to me aboutdepression, and anxiety and insomnia and suicidal thoughts. One woman I talkedto, who also told a joke that landed badly, she stayed home for a year and ahalf. Before that, she worked with adults with learning difficulties, and wasapparently really good at her job.

他們說自己感到抑郁， 焦慮、失眠，甚至想過自殺。 其中一位女士，也是因?yàn)殚_了個玩笑， 最后悲劇收場她把自己關(guān)在家里足足一年半。 之前她的職業(yè)是 幫助有學(xué)習(xí)障礙的成年人， 并且是個相當(dāng)稱職的人。

Justine was fired, of course, because social media demandedit. But it was worse than that. She was losing herself. She was waking up inthe middle of the night, forgetting who she was. She was got because she wasperceived to have misused her privilege. And of course, 

毫無疑問，賈絲婷把工作丟了， 因?yàn)檫@是社交媒體上的民意。 但更糟的是， 她逐漸迷失了自己。 有時她半夜醒來， 竟然不記得自己是誰。人們把她揪出來， 是因?yàn)樗翢o忌憚秀優(yōu)越。 

that's a much betterthing to get people for than the things we used to get people for, like havingchildren out of wedlock. But the phrase 'misuse of privilege' is becoming a free pass to tear apart pretty much anybody we choose to. 

這比起其他的原因大概 好很多吧。 從前我們把人揪出來是因?yàn)槲椿橄仍小?nbsp;但“秀優(yōu)越” 一詞已經(jīng)成了一張通用票， 用來打壓任何一個我們 想打壓的人。 

It'sbecoming a devalued term, and it's making us lose our capacity for empathy andfor distinguishing between serious and unserious transgressions.

這詞已變得毫無價值， 讓我們失去同情的能力， 失去區(qū)分嚴(yán)重過錯和無心之失的能力。

Justine had 170 Twitter followers, and so to make it work,she had to be fictionalized. Word got around that she was the daughter themining billionaire Desmond Sacco.[Let us not be fooled by #JustineSacco herfather is a SA mining billionaire. 

賈絲婷的推特粉絲只有170名, 因此，想讓大家點(diǎn)贊， 她得編個精彩的故事。有傳言說她是礦業(yè)大亨 德斯蒙德·薩科的女兒。[別讓#賈絲婷·薩科給耍了， 她老爸是SA礦業(yè)的億萬富翁。她不會后悔。 她老爸也不會.] 

She's not sorry. And neither is her father.]I thought that was true about Justine, until I met her at a bar, and I askedher about her billionaire father, and she said, 'My father sellscarpets.'

我也以為賈絲婷真是富家女。 直到我在酒吧同她見面， 問她富翁爸爸的事兒， 她說：“我爸是賣地毯的。”

And I think back on the early days of Twitter, when peoplewould admit shameful secrets about themselves, and other people would say,'Oh my God, I'm exactly the same.' 

我回想起推特剛上線的時候， 那時人們還會隨意爆一些自己的丑事， 其他人就會說， “天啊，我跟你一樣。” 現(xiàn)在呢，人人都在抓別人的丑事。 

These days, the hunt is on forpeople's shameful secrets. You can lead a good, ethical life, but some badphraseology in a Tweet can overwhelm it all, become a clue to your secret innerevil.

你本來生活無憂無慮， 但若在推文中說錯了只言片語， 一切就都完了， 人們恨不得將你打入十八層地獄。

Maybe there's two types of people in the world: thosepeople who favor humans over ideology, and those people who favor ideology overhumans. I favor humans over ideology, but right now, the ideologues arewinning, 

也許這世界有兩種人： 一種人相信人性高于意識形態(tài)， 一種人相信意識形態(tài)高于人性。 我屬于前者， 但眼下，后者正占據(jù)上風(fēng)， 這些人正在搭建一個舞臺， 

and they're creating a stage for constant artificial high dramas whereeverybody's either a magnificent hero or a sickening villain, even though weknow that's not true about our fellow humans. What's true is that we are cleverand stupid; what's true is that we're grey areas. 

不停上演一出大戲，戲里的人不是威猛英雄， 就是猥瑣壞人， 即使大家都明白其實(shí)人不是這樣的。真實(shí)的現(xiàn)實(shí)是 我們既聰明又愚蠢： 真實(shí)的現(xiàn)實(shí)是 我們都處于灰色地帶。 

The great thing about socialmedia was how it gave a voice to voiceless people, but we're now creating asurveillance society, where the smartest way to survive is to go back to beingvoiceless.

社交媒體的好處是它能為無處發(fā)聲的人 提供一個發(fā)言的平臺， 而現(xiàn)在呢，我們搞出了個間諜社會， 要想生存就得噤若寒蟬。

Let's not do that.Thank you.

讓我們改變這種局面吧。謝謝大家。

Bruno Giussani: Thank you, Jon.

布魯諾·吉薩尼: 謝謝你，喬恩。

Jon Ronson: Thanks, Bruno.

喬恩·朗森：謝謝你，布魯諾。

BG: Don't go away. What strikes me about Justine's story isalso the fact that if you Google her name today, this story covers the first100 pages of Google results -- there is nothing else about her. In your book,

BG：請先別走。 賈絲婷的故事最觸動我的是 你如今若在谷歌去搜她的名字， 搜索結(jié)果的開頭100頁都是 說她這個故事的—— 沒有任何其他關(guān)于她的信息。 

you mention another story of another victim who actually got taken on by areputation management firm, and by creating blogs and posting nice, innocuousstories about her love for cats and holidays and stuff, 

你的書還提到了另一個故事，一名受害者找到了一家名譽(yù)管理公司， 這家公司幫她打造博文， 上傳了很多暖心的文章，關(guān)于她如何愛貓， 如何度假等等， 

managed to get thestory off the first couple pages of Google results, but it didn't last long. Acouple of weeks later, they started creeping back up to the top result. Is thisa totally lost battle?

成功地把原來的故事 擠出了谷歌搜索結(jié)果的前幾頁，不過好景不長。 幾星期后，舊故事又 重新回到了搜索結(jié)果前列。 這是不是意味著我們徹底沒戲了？

Jon Ronson: You know, I think the very best thing we cando, if you see a kind of unfair or an ambiguous shaming, is to speak up,because I think the worst thing that happened to Justine was that nobodysupported her -- like, 

JR: 我認(rèn)為，我們現(xiàn)在能做的， 就是一旦發(fā)現(xiàn)有人在信口開河地亂噴， 就應(yīng)該大聲指出來，因?yàn)槲艺J(rèn)為 對賈絲婷來說最不幸的是沒有人為她說話—— 

everyone was against her, and that is profoundlytraumatizing, to be told by tens of thousands of people that you need to getout. But if a shaming happens and there's a babble of voices, like in ademocracy, 

似乎每個人都跟她對著干， 這是最讓人寒心的， 成千上萬的人讓你滾出去。 如果語言攻擊發(fā)生時，有不同的聲音在表達(dá)不同的觀點(diǎn)，就像民主似的， 人人都能發(fā)言討論， 

where people are discussing it, I think that's much less damaging.So I think that's the way forward, but it's hard, because if you do stand upfor somebody, it's incredibly unpleasant.

這樣的話，殺傷力會小很多。 我們應(yīng)該往這個方向努力， 當(dāng)然這很難，因?yàn)槟阋坏┱境鰜頌槟橙苏f話， 下場可能會非常慘。

BG: So let's talk about your experience, because you stoodup by writing this book. By the way, it's mandatory reading for everybody,okay? You stood up because the book actually puts the spotlight on shamers. AndI assume you didn't only have friendly reactions on Twitter.

BG: 那我們說說你的經(jīng)驗(yàn)。 你挺身而出，還寫了這本書。 順便說一句，大家都去讀讀這本書，好嗎？ 為什么說你挺身而出，因?yàn)槟銓⒕酃鉄舸蛟诹四切﹪娮由砩稀?nbsp;我覺得你在推特上沒少挨罵吧。

JR: It didn't go down that well with some people.(Laughter) I mean, you don't want to just concentrate -- because lots of peopleunderstood, and were really nice about the book. But yeah, for 30 years I'vebeen writing stories about abuses of power, 

JR: 有些人確實(shí)不怎么喜歡我。 (笑聲) 我是說，你不想僅僅關(guān)注—— 很多人都能明白， 都很接受這本書。 過去30年來我一直在寫 關(guān)于濫用職權(quán)的報(bào)道， 當(dāng)我曝光軍隊(duì)里位高權(quán)重之人，

and when I say the powerful peopleover there in the military, or in the pharmaceutical industry, everybodyapplauds me. As soon as I say, 'We are the powerful people abusing ourpower now,' I get people saying, 'Well you must be a racisttoo.'

 或者醫(yī)藥行業(yè)里只手遮天之人， 人人都鼓掌叫好。 直到我說：“你我也是有權(quán)之人， 我們也在濫用權(quán)力” 時， 有人就說：“你肯定也是個種族主義者?！?br/>

BG: So the other night -- yesterday -- we were at dinner,and there were two discussions going on. On one side you were talking withpeople around the table -- and that was a nice, constructive discussion. On theother, every time you turned to your phone, there is this deluge of insults.

BG:昨晚我們一起吃飯時， 有兩個討論在同時進(jìn)行。 一個發(fā)生在你和同桌其他人之間—— 這個討論氣氛良好、很有建設(shè)性。 另一個討論發(fā)生在你的手機(jī)里， 滿眼污言穢語。

JR: Yeah. This happened last night. We had like a TEDdinner last night. We were chatting and it was lovely and nice, and I decidedto check Twitter. Somebody said, 'You are a white supremacist.' Andthen I went back and had a nice conversation with somebody, 

JR：沒錯。這事兒發(fā)生在 昨晚的TED 晚宴上， 我們在聊天，氣氛融洽，然后我就去查看推特。 有人說：“你是個白人至上者.' 然后我回到餐桌，和某人愉快地交談了一會兒。 

and then I wentback to Twitter, somebody said my very existence made the world a worse place.My friend Adam Curtis says that maybe the Internet is like a John Carpentermovie from the 1980s, 

再次打開推特， 又有人說我的存在 讓這個世界變得更糟糕了。 我朋友亞當(dāng)·柯蒂斯說 也許網(wǎng)絡(luò)就像80年代約翰·卡彭特的電影， 最終人人都聲嘶力竭地開始對罵， 掏

when eventually everyone will start screaming at eachother and shooting each other, and then eventually everybody would flee tosomewhere safer, and I'm starting to think of that as a really nice option.

出槍來開始對射，直到最后人人 都逃去一個更安全的地方。 我在想那的確是一個不錯的選擇。

BG: Jon, thank you. JR: Thank you, Bruno.

BG: 喬恩，謝謝你。 JR: 謝謝你，布魯諾。